8. Reciprocal Exchange Copy

Key topics and themes included in this session:

  • Introduction to Gurdjieff’s system and its emphasis on reciprocal exchange and the interconnectedness of all things.
  • The complexity of Gurdjieff’s teachings, with a focus on the workings of the “food factory” and the elements within it, such as hydrogens and oxygens.
  • The goal to make Gurdjieff’s concepts accessible to a broader audience, including those following the Fourth Way and Christians, highlighting the relevance to contemporary culture and the teachings of Jesus.
  • Discussion of Gurdjieff’s mythological vision, emphasizing the traditional Near Eastern storytelling method, and the importance of oral tradition in transmitting sacred narratives.
  • Comparison of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky’s approaches, noting Gurdjieff’s background in the bardic tradition and its influence on his writings.
  • The significance of understanding Beelzebub’s Tales not just as literature but as a genre embodying deep, vibrational truths conveyed through storytelling.
  • Gurdjieff’s cosmology, including the concept of the Ray of Creation and its maintenance through a reciprocal feeding system, termed “trogoautoegocrat,” implying a self-sustaining universe through the process of consuming and being consumed.
  • The catastrophic birth of the moon as a key event in Gurdjieff’s narrative, leading to the necessity of the organic life on Earth providing a “conscious shock” to bridge a critical gap in the cosmic order.
  • The role of organic life, particularly human life, in sustaining the cosmic balance, with a potential for conscious participation in this process through deliberate efforts towards self-perfection and understanding.
  • Gurdjieff’s critique of modern ecological neglect and the failure to recognize the interconnectedness and interdependence of all forms of life, calling for a systemic understanding of our place within the cosmos.
  • The opportunity for humans to engage in “conscious labor and intentional suffering” as means to contribute positively to the cosmic balance, transcending the cycle of being mere “food for the moon.”
  • Exploration of the parallels between Gurdjieff’s teachings and the core messages of Christianity, particularly in the context of the Gospel of Thomas and the broader Christian mystical tradition.

Related Audio Content

used: 19 Saturday Morning Teaching Truncated

WEBVTT

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Well, today I want to begin to consider some aspects of Gurdjieff’s magnificent system

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and vision of reciprocal exchange, or that everything gets along by bootstrapping everything

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else, and the whole kind of notion of our place and everything’s place in the scheme

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of things that comes out of it.

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And I want to look at this in general terms.

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The whole how of how this system works is probably responsible for about 98% of the

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complexity in the work teachings.

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As people dive into the mechanics of the food factory and what goes up and hydrogens and

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oxygens, you can go down that rabbit hole if you feel so moved.

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But I’m staying mindful of what my real task in this particular exploration is, is

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to open these concepts up in general to a non-Fourth Way audience, and particularly

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to a Christian audience, to see their implications and their resonances for stuck points in our

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own culture, and also for illuminations of the heart of the Jesus teaching.

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So that’s basically where I’m going to work with it today.

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But I want to talk a little bit in general about Gurdjieff’s mythological vision that

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holds us together, his vision together, and some of the implications in general dynamics

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of a food chain.

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And then I want to go and look at the resonances of this with Jesus’s teaching in the canonical

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Gospels and then also in the Gospel of Thomas.

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So that’s where I envision us heading today.

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One of the reasons we gave you that little extract from Moore on the Revelation in Question

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is so that you could get a little sense of the mythology behind it.

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And one of the things I love that Moore picked up, and really the difference between Gurdjieff

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as he explains himself and as he sits in his own energy space, and Ouspensky’s approach

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to him, is that temperamentally Gurdjieff is a classic Near Eastern Ashok or balladeer.

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And this tradition is very strong.

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If you read meetings with, or if you see Meetings with Remarkable Men, you’ll see that the whole

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way in which, particularly in Near Eastern cultures, the history of the world transmissions

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and sacred mythos was passed on is through these wonderful, what you might call, chansons

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de geste, if you were speaking in French literary terms.

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These lovely long songs, some of them 30,000 40,000 verses, committed to memory and sung

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in chant by people in the culture specifically designated to that vocation.

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And this tradition still lives very much in Persia nowadays and in these places.

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And Gurdjieff’s father had this training.

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So what you find, I think it’s much more interesting to look at Beelzebub’s Tales with that as

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your sort of genre framework.

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He’s not sitting down to write what we would call a cosmological history of the world.

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He’s doing it in the classic way that it’s been done in all these great cultures that

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preserved a kind of heart, kinesthetic, blood lineage feeling of how history happened.

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And once you see that, a lot of the difficulties that people have with Beelzebub clears up

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immediately, once you recognize its genre and once you recognize the appropriate place

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where you have to be in yourself to receive this genre.

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Now what’s interesting is that Ouspensky missed the whole Beelzebub part because he split

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from Gurdjieff before Beelzebub got written.

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Beelzebub, the completion of that was almost a final task.

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He was just reading the proofs of the thing when he died.

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So it was his gift.

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And Ouspensky and the schools of thought that were directly and exclusively mediated through

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that channel never picked up that, either that body of information directly transmitted

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that way or the energy flavor of the transmission.

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And this is a very important thing to pay attention to.

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I had a very interesting confirmation or eye opener when I discovered when I was living

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in Victoria, Canada.

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We had a Persian fellow there who made his living as a kind of what you might call a

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therapeutic touch guy, but turbocharged.

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He could really just put his hand somewhere in your energetic field and things started

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rearranging.

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And I got to love this guy Kaz Fasi and he told me that the name Fasi in Farsi, it

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referred to this old function as the balladeer, the Ashok.

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And so one time he tried something on me.

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He says, here, you lie on the table and I’ll do a kinesthetic thing.

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And he put on a recording of his grandfather, a Fasi, a balladeer, chatting in Persian

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what turned out to be a little bit of Rumi’s Masnavi.

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And I understood no Persian, but my heart could track with incredible accuracy what

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was actually going on.

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I could measure and just in the rhythm of the words and the way it was sung, I could

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follow the vibrational flow of what was going on.

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And I simply mention this to you because you have to really, if you want to understand

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Beelzebub or a lot of this mythos is contained, go deep, deep, deep into the vibrational transmission

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of what’s here and into the genre that he’s working with.

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If you just take it as a literary composition and then start going, well, this is an accurate

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history, all those kind of Western things, you’re going to miss a whole layer in which

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truth is conveyed.

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So heads up for that.

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Most of what he talks about in here is in the language of mythos.

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And of course, we all know now via James Campbell and others that myth doesn’t mean

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untrue.

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It simply is a way of talking about things that have been passed on in oral tradition

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and ring with their own sort of resonance.

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So his story is this, and here’s the plot line of it.

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His understanding, first of all, is once upon a time, whenever once upon a time was, his

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Common Father Endlessness dwelled on the Holy Son Absolute.

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Now you can sort of work with that any way you want, but remember what I was telling

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you yesterday about how I was in part of this, inadvertently part of this scientific cosmological

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conference at the Science and Non-Duality Conference.

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And while on the one hand they were poo-pooing, you know, there’s no heaven up there and hell

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down there, it’s just the best everything is contained within the materiality of the

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cosmos.

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But beyond a very, very narrow range of cosmic existence, those things that we use and rely

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on absolutely as our measures of truth and facticity, time, space, dimension, cease to

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have any relevance.

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And so in that way it becomes perfectly feasible to consider these other dimensions as existing

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within our cosmos, you know, not as some sort of disembodied spiritual entities not in it.

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Because multidimensionality and all that good stuff is embedded right within the texture

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of this original megalocosmos as Gurdjieff called it.

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Anyway, as the mythological story goes, it was noticed that what Gurdjieff calls the

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Merciless Heropass, otherwise known as time, otherwise known as entropy, was nibbling away

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at the very space dimension of the Holy Sun Absolute.

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Now once again you can figure this out.

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What it does say is that the dimension that he calls time or that we call entropy goes

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way, way, way, way out into primordial cosmological, cosmogenesis.

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And I think it would be really neat to bring Beelzebub to some sort of frontline scientific

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cosmologists and try to hook up the data that he’s telling us mythologically here with what

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is in this ever-changing understanding of what’s happening out there beyond the beyonders

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and see how they match.

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But it was noticed that there was a force of entropy that was beginning to nibble away

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at the existence of the cosmos, of the whole whatever you want to call it, beingness.

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We might as well just stay with the mythology, the home of his Holy Father Endlessness.

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So this caused consternation in his introspection.

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And what happened is that during this original stage before this kind of entropic force was

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noticed, that the world was run according to the program which was called autoegocrat,

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that all the laws were under the demand of his Holy Common Father Endlessness,

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Beauty Cosmic Being, the many, many words Gurdjieff uses for our Common Father.

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And afterwards, he changed the nature of things and as Moore beautifully describes it, in

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something that might be akin to the proverbial Big Bang, he brings into being the megalocosmos,

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everything that is.

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And that in the same process, he slightly changes the Law of Seven and introduces it

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into it, these discontinuous vibrations that we looked at yesterday, Mi-Fa and Si-Do,

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in order to change the system so that it became what is called in this wonderful word, trogoautoegocrat.

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In other words, by eating myself, I maintain myself, in eating myself, I am– how does

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it go?

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In feeding myself, I am fed, eating myself, I am maintained, reciprocal maintenance.

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In other words, something in this whole thing would generate and feed back an energy that

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would counterbalance that implicit entropy so that what you have is a homeostasis that

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allows the whole thing to be.

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So that’s the vision and in the– at the barest and simplest forms, you can– if you remember

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that, you’ve got basically the gist of the cosmological foundation of this.

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That essentially– and I think cosmologists, you know, as they worry now about, you know,

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is the universe winding down or speeding up?

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It’s very interesting scientific discussions about this, you know.

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Stephen Hawking was all into entropy and that the thing was inevitably winding down and

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losing force and the energy was going out, involution as you would call it in metaphysical

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terms, so it finally came to a cold dead stop.

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Scientists are now seeing that there is this principle of evolution that countervails that

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and some are even saying, well, you know, it’s going to go the other way.

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It’s going to implode with the force of something that’s coming back up through it.

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But this is the basic idea that– and our place in the grand scheme of things is somehow

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has to be seen within this whole business of maintaining a dynamic equilibrium at the

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most fundamental energetic levels that lets everything continue to be so that entropy

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and evolution and involution all work together.

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Moore has some wonderful things to say about this in his– and just looking quickly at

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a few comments that really impressed me.

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Well, I’ll get to those in a minute because I want to do part two of that.

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So that’s the basic system.

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Then according to once again this wonderful mythology, just as the system has gotten set

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up, so that you have all these great things and the Ray of Being, remember the great Ray

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of Creation as we looked at it yesterday with the Siderum, the great starry galaxies, Lactera,

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Milky Way, our gallaxy, Fa, the planets, Mi, Mixtus Orbis, the Earth, we get down

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to Re, the moon.

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Well according to the story that spun in Beelzebub, the moon’s untimely and you might call jagged

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birth is the result of a cosmic accident.

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A comet strays into our solar system, collides with the Earth, Mi, knocks a piece off, actually

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knocks two pieces off, one of which is the moon and the other is this little planet that

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Gurdjieff calls Anulios.

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And this creates a dangerous cavitation in the whole system.

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The Earth is destabilized, the moon is, you know, Moore describes it beautifully as a

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Caesarean birth, ripped untimely from its mother’s womb and very angry and very hungry.

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And so immediately, no sooner is this whole system devised, then we have this instability

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that is in some sense accidentally introduced into it by a calamity and has to be dealt

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with.

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So essentially what Gurdjieff sees here is that, remember the Ray of Creation that we

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went at yesterday, that that descending ray of God’s wish to go out, to be into form,

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to reach, to hold together this cosmos, will be subject to the Law of Seven in this altered

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version that has now been set up.

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So the first note in the descending octave, the first interval or stopinder as Gurdjieff

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calls them, is bridged by the Will of the Absolute.

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So from there it goes at a straight line according to the Law of Seven, we’re off and running,

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through, you know, down through, La, Sol, Fa.

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The Mi-Fa passage, which is where that second little conscious shock is required, is bridged

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by the organic film of life on Earth.

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And this was Gurdjieff’s absolutely magnificent, and I can’t say how prophetic, contribution

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to the collective wisdom of the world.

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It was not seen at the time, you know, people just sort of laughed at it, this was a quaint

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fairy tale, and everybody was all still used to the story from Genesis, you know, happy

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God sitting in his heaven creating in beautiful order of ways ascending hierarchies of, you

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know, animals and things.

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Gurdjieff said, yeah, the organic film of sentient life on Earth in some way mediates

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and provides the conscious shock that allows things to continue on down the Ray of Creation

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to the moon.

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Well what’s interesting in this, the, here’s more saying something on page 45 that I love,

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the Ray of Creation is far more rewardingly dwelt on as a philosophical model of the universe

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which comes as near as humanly possible to reconciling the irreconcilable, involution

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and evolution, determinism and free will, entropy and negative entropy, suffering and

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God’s benignity.

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So this is the map Gurdjieff is giving us.

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He says, talking about the apparatus for transmitting this force from Fa to MI,

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this organic life on Earth and Moore picks up with this extraordinary concept of a global

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organic transformer or filter of cosmic rays.

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Gurdjieff presents the hard won solution to his burning question concerning the precise

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significance in general of the life process on Earth of all outwards forms of living creatures.

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Very few geochemists today would trouble to challenge a biosphere proposition of sorts,

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but Gurdjieff’s emphatic vision in his epic was strikingly original.

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And this is one of the reasons why he’s seen today and Moore makes this absolutely explicit,

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that we see him as one of the fathers of modern ecology.

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He says over on page 52, One final glance confirms the singularity of Gurdjieff’s social

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viewpoint.

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He, perhaps more than anyone, qualifies as the philosophical father of our contemporary

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ecological and holistic movements.

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Because you see, when you grasp this, when you cut away the, you know, the things like,

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Oh, we’re in love or we’re listening to a funny fairy tale, he’s seeing something absolutely

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profound here, that there is such a thing as a biosphere, there is such a thing as Gaia,

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and that this Earth’s, this atmosphere has an extraordinarily important role to play

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in transmitting downwards something, filtering these cosmic rays on their journey down.

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We’re discovering that to our intense terror now as we discover what it actually means

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when we mow down the rain forest and holes pop up in the, you know, in the ozone level.

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But he named this in the, you know, he named it in the ’40s, but he’d been working on it

00:23:07.400 –> 00:23:10.680
and teaching it much, much earlier.

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Decades, nobody was even dreaming in that direction.

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Nobody had even bumped into the idea that the universe might be a instrument arranged

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to very tight tolerances.

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We hadn’t run out of room yet.

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Yeah, okay, we need more, we need more carbon fuel.

00:23:36.360 –> 00:23:40.360
Let’s go mow down some forests in the Amazon, you know, they’re not very good places anyway,

00:23:40.360 –> 00:23:44.600
they’re just ugly primitive non-Christian savages live there, you know.

00:23:44.600 –> 00:23:49.920
Mow them over, you know, too swampy for Walmarts, you know.

00:23:49.920 –> 00:23:58.640
So, so you get the idea that nobody in his age had understood that there were limits

00:23:58.640 –> 00:24:04.240
of sustainability to the planet itself, nobody.

00:24:04.240 –> 00:24:13.160
Nobody understood that there were some implications of burning our fossil fuels to exhaustion,

00:24:13.160 –> 00:24:19.040
of filling the air with pollution, of intensifying the greenhouse effect,

00:24:19.040 –> 00:24:23.560
because nobody was thinking systemically.

00:24:23.560 –> 00:24:29.920
We were still thinking that God in his starry oneness had created this precious little gem.

00:24:29.920 –> 00:24:35.240
And although we had wrapped our heads around the fact that, okay,

00:24:35.240 –> 00:24:41.840
the earth isn’t the center of the universe, we still haven’t religiously and theologically

00:24:41.840 –> 00:24:45.720
and liturgically yet wrapped our heads around that.

00:24:45.720 –> 00:24:51.960
You know, all our language is still based on the book of Genesis, where there’s only one earth,

00:24:51.960 –> 00:24:56.240
with stars twinkling above so that we can have mystical experiences.

00:24:56.240 –> 00:24:59.600
And God loves this little planet.

00:24:59.600 –> 00:25:06.440
And at the end, we, if we behaved ourself, will be given angel rewards.

00:25:06.440 –> 00:25:13.120
And God in his complete self-sufficiency can maintain it without any particular need from us.

00:25:13.120 –> 00:25:15.920
Our only job is to be good.

00:25:15.920 –> 00:25:20.600
And we’d be good in order to save our own skins.

00:25:20.600 –> 00:25:28.760
Gurdjieff was saying something so much more tightly and intimately orchestrated, okay,

00:25:28.760 –> 00:25:32.160
that everything depends on everything else.

00:25:32.160 –> 00:25:39.760
And this maintenance of this particular note that we have to play,

00:25:39.760 –> 00:25:45.520
that we at this point being not just human beings, but all of organic life

00:25:45.520 –> 00:25:50.960
in that transmission of that conscious shock on downward,

00:25:50.960 –> 00:25:56.480
all intensified incidentally by the moon disaster.

00:25:56.480 –> 00:26:05.240
Because what, you know, once again going into mythological terminology,

00:26:05.240 –> 00:26:13.280
when holy beings, wise holy ones, the archangel Looisos was sent to investigate what was going

00:26:13.280 –> 00:26:23.160
to happen through this whole already tightly wired realm of interdependent arising,

00:26:23.160 –> 00:26:28.280
he discovered that the moon needed to be fed and stabilized quickly

00:26:28.280 –> 00:26:33.720
so that the whole thing didn’t just sort of, you know, cavitate out of balance.

00:26:33.720 –> 00:26:38.040
You know what happens when things start going with a blip in them.

00:26:38.040 –> 00:26:46.840
And that the food for the moon, a very, very familiar and notorious term

00:26:46.840 –> 00:26:57.280
in work terminology is something which in the language of Beelzebub is called askokin,

00:26:57.280 –> 00:27:04.520
which is a substance that is released at the death of organic life.

00:27:04.520 –> 00:27:09.160
And I use the analogy of just when the candle goes out, it makes that little poof,

00:27:09.160 –> 00:27:11.320
and up goes a something.

00:27:11.320 –> 00:27:15.640
If you could think that we all do likewise and that plants do likewise,

00:27:15.640 –> 00:27:24.160
and you know, organic life when it gives up the spirit, as it were, releases something.

00:27:24.160 –> 00:27:32.320
And so what was discovered was that this substance will be released

00:27:32.320 –> 00:27:36.600
from us at the hour of our death.

00:27:36.600 –> 00:27:41.040
And between just the organic components of our body which become part

00:27:41.040 –> 00:27:45.920
of the organic film of the earth, and this askokin

00:27:45.920 –> 00:27:50.040
that in a specific way feeds the moon.

00:27:50.040 –> 00:27:58.800
So we will involuntarily play our part in the cosmic homeostasis.

00:28:00.640 –> 00:28:12.200
However, if, and this is how it goes, if we can die before we die,

00:28:12.200 –> 00:28:16.360
and there is another way open, so far as we know, only to humans,

00:28:16.360 –> 00:28:22.120
only to those of this particular niche in the whole sphere

00:28:22.120 –> 00:28:31.920
of interdependent arising, that this askokin can be released in another way.

00:28:31.920 –> 00:28:35.720
And we’re going to talk about what this way is in Gurdjieff terminology

00:28:35.720 –> 00:28:37.640
for the rest of our time here.

00:28:37.640 –> 00:28:44.680
But the gist of it is through conscious labor and intentional suffering.

00:28:44.680 –> 00:28:47.440
And we’re going to talk about what these two things mean.

00:28:47.440 –> 00:28:50.120
They don’t sound very pleasant when you first hear them

00:28:50.120 –> 00:28:53.760
on a pretty Saturday morning in November.

00:28:53.760 –> 00:28:58.720
But they aren’t half as bad as you think they are.

00:28:58.720 –> 00:29:01.120
Particularly the intentional suffering bit.

00:29:01.120 –> 00:29:05.040
And our Christian viewpoints already give us ways

00:29:05.040 –> 00:29:06.400
to come to terms with that.

00:29:06.400 –> 00:29:07.720
Yes, Gail?

00:29:07.720 –> 00:29:14.640

It’s just so powerful to hear this in light of Analog 10 in Philip,

00:29:14.640 –> 00:29:19.840
where it says first he was resurrected and then he died.

00:29:19.840 –> 00:29:25.120
Those who are resurrected first are like God.

00:29:25.120 –> 00:29:29.200
They are already alive and can never die.

00:29:29.200 –> 00:29:31.280

Yes. Very beautiful.

00:29:31.280 –> 00:29:34.560
And one of the points I’m going to be driving at is

00:29:34.560 –> 00:29:39.640
that this knowledge is in the Gospel of Thomas.

00:29:39.640 –> 00:29:41.240
Absolutely.

00:29:41.240 –> 00:29:52.120
And to the extent that you have faith, have confidence, or reason to suspect

00:29:52.120 –> 00:29:57.000
that the Gospel of Thomas is not only a true transmission of Jesus,

00:29:57.000 –> 00:30:01.040
but probably actually the earliest transmission of Jesus,

00:30:01.040 –> 00:30:02.720
at least at its core.

00:30:02.720 –> 00:30:04.960
And there’s a lot of scholarship that’s beginning

00:30:04.960 –> 00:30:07.480
to trickle in to support that.

00:30:07.480 –> 00:30:15.000
Then you can say that, oh, Jesus knew what Gurdjieff knew.

00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:23.360
And this is the thing that electrified me and still electrifies me.

00:30:23.360 –> 00:30:25.960
The ones of you that have soldiered through my E-course

00:30:25.960 –> 00:30:32.040
on the Wisdom Jesus know that I keep coming back to putting my emphasis

00:30:32.040 –> 00:30:37.680
on the exchange, the vertical exchange, the higher collectivity.

00:30:37.680 –> 00:30:45.760
These are all part of the same vision of reciprocal maintenance.

00:30:45.760 –> 00:30:52.160
And I believe that even the Trinity, not as it got developed by Augustine

00:30:52.160 –> 00:30:56.000
who took the whole thing in a radically wrong direction,

00:30:56.000 –> 00:31:00.000
but as intuitively discerned

00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:05.640
in that great wisdom school in Cappadocia that entered the mind of Christ

00:31:05.640 –> 00:31:11.000
and discovered there that same trogoautoegocratic process.

00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:14.400
When you look at Father, Son, Holy Spirit,

00:31:14.400 –> 00:31:18.160
and we’ll just let those three points be named as such,

00:31:18.160 –> 00:31:22.680
not as a model of three people who are God,

00:31:22.680 –> 00:31:26.920
and only these three people are God, but as you see them as a system

00:31:26.920 –> 00:31:33.760
of dynamic equilibrium, all working around that eating myself,

00:31:33.760 –> 00:31:39.400
I am maintained, giving of myself, I am maintained,

00:31:39.400 –> 00:31:45.320
allowing myself to be food, I am maintained, which is what kenosis is.

00:31:45.320 –> 00:31:48.520
You’ve all heard the Father gives himself into the Son.

00:31:48.520 –> 00:31:53.000
And you look at the three realms in that Trinity, the Father,

00:31:53.000 –> 00:31:58.720
His Holy Son endlessness, Son, mixtus orbis, human form,

00:31:58.720 –> 00:32:06.520
the organic film, Spirit, a realm of more fluidity.

00:32:06.520 –> 00:32:11.200
And what you see is in the Trinity is embedded the model

00:32:11.200 –> 00:32:14.880
of exchange between the realms.

00:32:14.880 –> 00:32:20.520
Reciprocal, interabiding exchange between the realms.

00:32:20.520 –> 00:32:25.880
Trogoautoegocrat, which is why the Trinity cannot drop

00:32:25.880 –> 00:32:29.600
out of Christian understanding, because if you know how to work it,

00:32:29.600 –> 00:32:35.800
it’s the mandala that reminds us that Jesus knew this principle.

00:32:35.800 –> 00:32:38.560
Jesus knew what Gurdjieff knew.

00:32:38.560 –> 00:32:45.880
And that the teachings on how to do this are there in Christianity.

00:32:45.880 –> 00:32:48.600
And when we read them through the filter

00:32:48.600 –> 00:32:54.400
of Gurdjieff’s brilliant rekindling of the vision 20 centuries later,

00:32:54.400 –> 00:32:59.560
you go, oh, you know what kenosis is, what surrender is,

00:32:59.560 –> 00:33:04.240
is conscious labor and intentional suffering.

00:33:04.240 –> 00:33:08.960
And there’s this constant at these really amazing points

00:33:08.960 –> 00:33:12.080
between Christianity and the Gurdjieff work, there’s this constant,

00:33:12.080 –> 00:33:16.200
aha, aha, aha, aha.

00:33:16.200 –> 00:33:21.960
And for me, this is not surprising, because teaching comes from levels.

00:33:21.960 –> 00:33:27.420
Levels, you know, when you have real, real spiritual teaching,

00:33:27.420 –> 00:33:30.840
it’s not so much a linear transmission, somebody in time passes it

00:33:30.840 –> 00:33:34.320
on to somebody else as a vertical transmission.

00:33:34.320 –> 00:33:37.120
Someone who reaches a level of understanding,

00:33:37.120 –> 00:33:40.160
unlocks all the things that are accessible

00:33:40.160 –> 00:33:42.160
at that level of understanding.

00:33:42.160 –> 00:33:43.880
They’re always there.

00:33:43.880 –> 00:33:48.320
And so, you know, what it simply says is that Gurdjieff found.

00:33:48.320 –> 00:33:53.960
He reached that level that Jesus was coming from and was able

00:33:53.960 –> 00:34:00.520
to bring this teaching back in a time when human beings were just,

00:34:00.520 –> 00:34:06.240
you know, maybe 40 years short of absolutely having to hear it.

00:34:06.240 –> 00:34:07.920
Eddie?

00:34:07.920 –> 00:34:13.600

Would you say that he was informed by his sort

00:34:13.600 –> 00:34:19.920
of proximity geographically to where Jesus in the Near East

00:34:19.920 –> 00:34:24.080
and Cappadocia, but informed by his Eastern Orthodoxy

00:34:24.080 –> 00:34:28.720
in developing the Law of Seven?

00:34:28.720 –> 00:34:34.120

Yeah. I mean, I would say that these concepts were out there

00:34:34.120 –> 00:34:41.280
and that they have been maintained in the Near East in interesting ways.

00:34:41.280 –> 00:34:46.720
And one of the things that makes Orthodoxy always a place that’s almost

00:34:46.720 –> 00:34:52.600
like a treasure chest to which people return is that there is

00:34:52.600 –> 00:34:59.640
such a transmission of deeper wisdom there, largely through the liturgy,

00:34:59.640 –> 00:35:03.080
through the acclamations and formulas.

00:35:03.080 –> 00:35:07.480
But if you really go at them and go understand and say, Oh, yeah,

00:35:07.480 –> 00:35:10.760
you know, and what Gurdjieff really did in this 20-year search

00:35:10.760 –> 00:35:15.760
where he went all over the Near East, basically,

00:35:15.760 –> 00:35:23.000
is that he allowed his heart to absorb and then weave these strands.

00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000
So, yes, indeed.

00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:26.320
Yes, indeed.

00:35:26.320 –> 00:35:27.600
And I’ve been at Cappadocia,

00:35:27.600 –> 00:35:31.160
and I know there was a wisdom school there.

00:35:31.160 –> 00:35:33.920
I actually heard a guide take people through one

00:35:33.920 –> 00:35:36.360
of these wonderful little catacomb places.

00:35:36.360 –> 00:35:38.280
And he started to give some information.

00:35:38.280 –> 00:35:39.920
He saw this American was in the room.

00:35:39.920 –> 00:35:41.480
He switched into German.

00:35:41.480 –> 00:35:44.200
He didn’t know this American could understand German.

00:35:44.200 –> 00:35:50.280
So — at least when I was making a super effort.

00:35:50.280 –> 00:35:55.360
So these folks that brought us the Trinity, you know, Basil of Caesarea

00:35:55.360 –> 00:36:02.080
and the two Gregories, are not just doing a top —

00:36:02.080 –> 00:36:06.120
you know, a bottom-up intellectual speculation on the mind of Christ.

00:36:06.120 –> 00:36:07.800
I think Augustine did that.

00:36:07.800 –> 00:36:11.240
They were downloading a bleed-through.

00:36:11.240 –> 00:36:15.840
It’s like a crop circle of the mind of Christ.

00:36:15.840 –> 00:36:17.160
Yes, Gail?

00:36:17.160 –> 00:36:20.320

Just another interesting download piece.

00:36:20.320 –> 00:36:26.920
There is a certain Dr. Hussain Jalali, who’s an American-born Muslim,

00:36:26.920 –> 00:36:31.720
and also a teacher of Matthew Wright, interestingly,

00:36:31.720 –> 00:36:35.520
who recently explained that the Koran —

00:36:35.520 –> 00:36:41.320
in the Koran, he believes, are embedded the teachings —

00:36:41.320 –> 00:36:44.600
these same teachings, the Gnostic teachings,

00:36:44.600 –> 00:36:47.600
what are called Gnostic teachings, like the Gospel of Thomas,

00:36:47.600 –> 00:36:50.080
rather than the canonical Christian teachings,

00:36:50.080 –> 00:36:54.080
and that they were embedded as part of an oral transmission,

00:36:54.080 –> 00:36:57.880
as being understood in wholeness, fully.

00:36:57.880 –> 00:36:59.480

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:36:59.480 –> 00:37:02.840
And this — you know, it’s wonderful how it comes.

00:37:02.840 –> 00:37:11.000
And Gurdjieff’s cosmic mission, for which he paid with his life,

00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:14.640
was to become the prophet to the West.

00:37:14.640 –> 00:37:20.040
You know, I see him like the mirror image, in some ways, of John Cassian,

00:37:20.040 –> 00:37:24.840
who years ago — who centuries ago, the headwaters of the monastic life,

00:37:24.840 –> 00:37:30.080
had to transmit the collective wisdom of the lived desert tradition

00:37:30.080 –> 00:37:32.600
to a form in which it could be passed on in the West,

00:37:32.600 –> 00:37:35.040
as Western monasticism.

00:37:35.040 –> 00:37:38.960
In a somewhat analogous fashion, this wonderful fellow

00:37:38.960 –> 00:37:44.080
with his Armenian, Greek, Russian, Central Asian heart,

00:37:44.080 –> 00:37:50.920
passed on these teachings in a form that was a cosmic warning to the West,

00:37:50.920 –> 00:37:52.760
and got some people going.

00:37:52.760 –> 00:37:59.200
But the whole idea of this homeostasis, the whole idea that the Ray

00:37:59.200 –> 00:38:02.880
of Creation must keep extending outward,

00:38:02.880 –> 00:38:10.040
and at the same time must be receiving back and inward,

00:38:10.040 –> 00:38:14.480
to keep the whole thing in dynamic equilibrium,

00:38:14.480 –> 00:38:19.280
is an extraordinary vision, an absolutely extraordinary vision.

00:38:19.280 –> 00:38:24.360
And it’s within that vision that we find our place,

00:38:24.360 –> 00:38:28.880
and we find the urgency of the situation.

00:38:28.880 –> 00:38:34.000
It’s very interesting that as cosmology begins

00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:40.460
to explore these waters scientifically,

00:38:40.460 –> 00:38:44.960
that have previously been alluded to mythologically,

00:38:44.960 –> 00:38:46.760
in Gurdjieff’s writing, more and more

00:38:46.760 –> 00:38:52.200
of the pieces are beginning to be confirmed.

00:38:52.200 –> 00:38:55.480
You know, there is now a school of thought that does indeed see

00:38:55.480 –> 00:38:58.120
that the moon was the result of the comet thing,

00:38:58.120 –> 00:39:00.240
that it’s been able to track this other planet

00:39:00.240 –> 00:39:04.760
that people first laughed at.

00:39:04.760 –> 00:39:11.600
There is Gurdjieff’s whole explanation of Atlantis, you know,

00:39:11.600 –> 00:39:17.320
and the great flood that people remember, this sense that is embedded

00:39:17.320 –> 00:39:22.800
in the oral history of humankind, that a great tragedy bespelt.

00:39:22.800 –> 00:39:24.480
He said it did.

00:39:24.480 –> 00:39:27.720
That the inherent lopsidedness of the earth

00:39:27.720 –> 00:39:31.680
that still hadn’t been stabilized from that first collision,

00:39:31.680 –> 00:39:36.560
resulted in a shifting of the center of gravity within the planet,

00:39:36.560 –> 00:39:40.360
which brought about a great flood that engulfed Atlantis.

00:39:40.360 –> 00:39:44.600
And on and on and on things check out.

00:39:44.600 –> 00:39:49.160
So I would really encourage people, as they can,

00:39:49.160 –> 00:39:52.320
to hang out with Beelzebub.

00:39:52.320 –> 00:39:57.480
That beyond the blarney and the mythos, there’s something

00:39:57.480 –> 00:40:02.640
that he’s committing, that he is transmitting here,

00:40:02.640 –> 00:40:05.000
that is not blarney.

00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:10.920
And this idea of an intercosmic homeostasis that’s maintained

00:40:10.920 –> 00:40:20.120
by dynamic equilibrium is, I think, the only idea

00:40:20.120 –> 00:40:24.400
which is compatible with the continued existence

00:40:24.400 –> 00:40:26.720
of human life on this planet.

00:40:26.720 –> 00:40:35.600
None of the other maps we use are going to get us there.

00:40:35.600 –> 00:40:39.160
And I believe with all due respects

00:40:39.160 –> 00:40:42.560
that even the classic perennial philosophy maps are not going

00:40:42.560 –> 00:40:46.120
to get us there, because they are too bought

00:40:46.120 –> 00:40:52.000
into the platonic distinction between matter and spirit.

00:40:52.000 –> 00:40:55.840
And the sense that there is some hypothetical vertical axis

00:40:55.840 –> 00:41:00.280
that goes out of materiality, it won’t work.

00:41:00.280 –> 00:41:02.200
It simply won’t work.

00:41:02.200 –> 00:41:09.040
Because one of the things that Gurdjieff demanded so powerfully is

00:41:09.040 –> 00:41:15.480
that we had to gird up our loins and dig into materiality.

00:41:15.480 –> 00:41:18.240
In his system, it’s all material.

00:41:18.240 –> 00:41:24.200
There isn’t some junction point where matter stops and spirit begins.

00:41:24.200 –> 00:41:32.160
And there is an ascending gamut of vibrations.

00:41:32.160 –> 00:41:33.640
Yes, indeed.

00:41:33.640 –> 00:41:36.920
And so that you might say that what we used to call spirit could be

00:41:36.920 –> 00:41:42.080
re-looked at today as simply finer vibrations.

00:41:42.080 –> 00:41:46.360
But there’s a whole fundamentally different feeling tone to this.

00:41:46.360 –> 00:41:53.560
Because in the all-matter-spirit dichotomy, there was a disjunct.

00:41:53.560 –> 00:41:58.720
And in this one, with a gamut, there is no disjunct.

00:41:58.720 –> 00:42:04.680
You know, the finest, finest vibration never loses its

00:42:04.680 –> 00:42:08.040
substantial tension with the coarsest.

00:42:08.040 –> 00:42:10.800
Okay? Really, really important.

00:42:10.800 –> 00:42:14.920
There’s not a fundamental different nature between matter and spirit.

00:42:14.920 –> 00:42:18.960
It’s all a continuingly refined gradient of the same thing.

00:42:18.960 –> 00:42:25.040
Really, really important, which allows incarnation,

00:42:25.040 –> 00:42:31.120
which allows God indwelling all of us to be an actual lived experience,

00:42:31.120 –> 00:42:33.960
not some sort of cosmic singularity.

00:42:33.960 –> 00:42:37.920
So these are really important pieces of this.

00:42:37.920 –> 00:42:39.880
It’s all material.

00:42:39.880 –> 00:42:46.600
And the other thing that Gurdjieff was drawing our attention to back

00:42:46.600 –> 00:42:53.920
in the ’20s is that there is no such thing as individual salvation.

00:42:53.920 –> 00:42:59.240
And Moore writes about this somehow sardonically and sarcastically,

00:42:59.240 –> 00:43:02.760
that there’s not a God that likes each one of our little souls

00:43:02.760 –> 00:43:08.440
and has put us down here so that we can happily learn to do good

00:43:08.440 –> 00:43:14.320
and be nice and go back and sit blissfully and delightfully,

00:43:14.320 –> 00:43:19.280
one of Gurdjieff’s favorite phrases, to claim our cosmic reward.

00:43:19.280 –> 00:43:26.280
We belong inescapably to a higher collectivity, that we are

00:43:26.280 –> 00:43:29.760
in that sense cogs in a cosmic wheel.

00:43:29.760 –> 00:43:38.760
And while this may initially be a real way of deflating our balloon,

00:43:38.760 –> 00:43:45.140
I think you eventually realize when you say that even though there is no,

00:43:45.140 –> 00:43:49.440
you know, you’re not singled out, Paula is not God’s little darling.

00:43:49.440 –> 00:43:51.240
Oh, come on.

00:43:51.240 –> 00:43:54.920
Laughter

00:43:54.920 –> 00:44:00.960
But that doesn’t mean that Paula is not loved.

00:44:00.960 –> 00:44:06.800
Because somehow in and through this great trans personality,

00:44:06.800 –> 00:44:14.320
every particularity is also an instantiation

00:44:14.320 –> 00:44:19.640
of the complete holy intimacy.

00:44:19.640 –> 00:44:24.360
Okay? Every particularity.

00:44:24.360 –> 00:44:25.640

Yeah.

00:44:25.640 –> 00:44:30.520

Every rose, every rosemary, every Paula, every Jonathan, you know,

00:44:30.520 –> 00:44:39.960
is a complete instantiation of the divine intimacy.

00:44:39.960 –> 00:44:43.420
Yes, Lisa?

00:44:43.420 –> 00:44:46.520

I think the first time I had a real epiphany about that was

00:44:46.520 –> 00:44:47.820
around DNA.

00:44:47.820 –> 00:44:49.120

Mm-hmm.

00:44:49.120 –> 00:44:51.080

That in the whole notion of anamnesis,

00:44:51.080 –> 00:44:57.560
that every self or being contains everything that ever happened before

00:44:57.560 –> 00:44:59.440
and everything before ever happened.

00:44:59.440 –> 00:45:01.880

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:45:01.880 –> 00:45:10.640
And once you can separate love and intimacy from specialness, you know.

00:45:10.640 –> 00:45:11.940

Yes.

00:45:13.240 –> 00:45:15.320
Laughter

00:45:15.320 –> 00:45:16.620
Then you get it.

00:45:16.620 –> 00:45:21.500
The whole problem, because we still learn and, you know,

00:45:21.500 –> 00:45:27.060
the ego can only measure and find its way by way of differentiation.

00:45:27.060 –> 00:45:32.580
So when you want to say that God loves me fully, you can only hear

00:45:32.580 –> 00:45:35.220
when you’re using your egoic operating system.

00:45:35.220 –> 00:45:39.300
That means God must love me more than somebody else, you know.

00:45:39.300 –> 00:45:41.540
Because that’s how the ego works.

00:45:41.540 –> 00:45:46.100
And so we all get into competition around love, you know.

00:45:46.100 –> 00:45:51.320
This is where I gnashed my teeth for five or six years with Rafe.

00:45:51.320 –> 00:45:55.780
And he finally had to die to wake me up from my fantasy.

00:45:55.780 –> 00:46:00.540
That to be secure enough to know that Rafe loved me fully,

00:46:00.540 –> 00:46:02.780
I could only hear it as he had to love me better

00:46:02.780 –> 00:46:04.780
than all his other girlfriends, you know.

00:46:04.780 –> 00:46:08.620
And he used to tear his hair out about that.

00:46:08.620 –> 00:46:10.100
No, no, you don’t understand.

00:46:10.100 –> 00:46:15.100
You don’t understand that love is not a competition.

00:46:15.100 –> 00:46:21.740
And so what we begin to discover is precisely as we’re able

00:46:21.740 –> 00:46:26.780
to do this work of letting go of that egoic fear.

00:46:26.780 –> 00:46:31.820
You know, that’s what so moved me, Lisa, in your observation last night.

00:46:31.820 –> 00:46:38.100
We’re not less loved because we’re less me.

00:46:38.100 –> 00:46:39.940
We’re more loved.

00:46:39.940 –> 00:46:46.700
And we’re able to extend that intimacy freely amongst all other

00:46:46.700 –> 00:46:52.380
createdness as what Gurdjieff called the hanbledzoin, the blood

00:46:52.380 –> 00:46:57.260
of that higher love running through the higher collectivity.

00:46:57.260 –> 00:47:01.580
So just because we say we’re not special doesn’t mean

00:47:01.580 –> 00:47:05.340
that there’s any lack of tenderness, of intimacy,

00:47:05.340 –> 00:47:12.380
of heart-to-heart communion, all the more so as we get relentlessly

00:47:12.380 –> 00:47:16.380
and gently pushed toward our own next stage

00:47:16.380 –> 00:47:18.740
in the evolutionary unfolding,

00:47:18.740 –> 00:47:22.220
which can only be done once that’s stabilized.

00:47:22.220 –> 00:47:24.980
Okay? So very, very important point.

00:47:24.980 –> 00:47:26.620
It is collective.

00:47:26.620 –> 00:47:33.340
And we are being quietly catapulted along toward a higher collectivity,

00:47:33.340 –> 00:47:34.900
which I’ll get to.

00:47:34.900 –> 00:47:37.420
The other thing, though, that we have to realize

00:47:37.420 –> 00:47:41.300
that it’s always a two-way street.

00:47:41.300 –> 00:47:46.340
And this is something that is mentioned sort of as a footnote

00:47:46.340 –> 00:47:50.900
in the perennial philosophy, but the emphasis is so much on upward

00:47:50.900 –> 00:47:56.100
and upward, getting to spirit, you know, as one

00:47:56.100 –> 00:47:59.980
of Ken Wilber’s minions said in a telling Freudian slip,

00:47:59.980 –> 00:48:05.660
you can go in the course of one lifetime from nothing to God.

00:48:05.660 –> 00:48:08.460
And it showed that he was still thinking about God being

00:48:08.460 –> 00:48:12.220
that higher spiritual resolution.

00:48:12.220 –> 00:48:15.180
God is simultaneously coming down.

00:48:15.180 –> 00:48:18.020
If you want to use up and down, up and down are completely,

00:48:18.020 –> 00:48:22.020
in this sense, distortions.

00:48:22.020 –> 00:48:26.300
But remember that incredible line that we’ve now heard twice

00:48:26.300 –> 00:48:34.740
from Segal, that just as … we need, attention needs to be offered upward

00:48:34.740 –> 00:48:38.540
and how we need to refine it and somehow remove it

00:48:38.540 –> 00:48:44.180
from the coarseness, it still needs the coarseness to do its work

00:48:44.180 –> 00:48:47.180
of downward transmission.

00:48:47.180 –> 00:48:51.620
And that human beings really, because we are conscious,

00:48:51.620 –> 00:48:57.460
are a two-way street between, you know, the upward transmission,

00:48:57.460 –> 00:49:02.740
if you want, the giving back of what we have refined and processed

00:49:02.740 –> 00:49:07.580
in our own conscious digestion and offered back up again,

00:49:07.580 –> 00:49:11.860
and the transmission still down to sister moon.

00:49:11.860 –> 00:49:20.180
And that conscious and that course is absolutely necessary

00:49:20.180 –> 00:49:24.380
to the right transmission in the Ray of Creation.

00:49:24.380 –> 00:49:31.780
And so this whole idea that Gurdjieff called the Babylonian dualism

00:49:31.780 –> 00:49:38.380
that saw matter as flawed, corrupt, and in some sense, the problem

00:49:38.380 –> 00:49:45.580
and dispensable, is a tragic misunderstanding

00:49:45.580 –> 00:49:49.700
of the intercosmic homeostasis.

00:49:49.700 –> 00:49:54.820
The coarse forms will always be being born and as the ones that were

00:49:54.820 –> 00:49:57.420
at a certain level of coarseness move up,

00:49:57.420 –> 00:50:02.980
there’ll be a continuing emergence of coarseness, you know?

00:50:02.980 –> 00:50:07.140
In my estimation, a new moon will begin.

00:50:07.140 –> 00:50:08.940
Yes, Lisa?

00:50:08.940 –> 00:50:12.220

I’m going to say something.

00:50:12.220 –> 00:50:18.420
So the Zoroastrianism and the Babylonian dualism is also there

00:50:18.420 –> 00:50:22.140
as well as the Greek platonic mission.

00:50:22.140 –> 00:50:31.020
So it’s actually existing surrounding this other unified guide.

00:50:31.020 –> 00:50:32.380

Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:32.380 –> 00:50:33.700
They converged.

00:50:33.700 –> 00:50:42.700
And if you read Beelzebub, he’s pretty harsh on the Babylonian dualism.

00:50:42.700 –> 00:50:50.620
If you believe, and some do, that this wonderful mythical character

00:50:50.620 –> 00:50:56.340
who appears like a little ray of light in Beelzebub

00:50:56.340 –> 00:51:00.580
and then disappears, the saintly Ashiata Shiemash,

00:51:00.580 –> 00:51:06.140
if you believe that is Zoroaster, you can, as some do,

00:51:06.140 –> 00:51:11.140
you can only conclude that what has remained is Zoroastrianism,

00:51:11.140 –> 00:51:14.460
is not an accurate understanding

00:51:14.460 –> 00:51:17.780
of what Zoroaster was actually doing.

00:51:17.780 –> 00:51:19.080
But I leave that.

00:51:19.080 –> 00:51:20.620
I’m not a specialist.

00:51:20.620 –> 00:51:27.300
What Gurdjieff was implacably opposed to is the dualism

00:51:27.300 –> 00:51:30.140
that separated spirit from matter

00:51:30.140 –> 00:51:37.340
and identified our cosmic function exclusively with the realization

00:51:37.340 –> 00:51:43.460
of the illusory nature of matter and a return to spirit.

00:51:43.460 –> 00:51:51.860
His whole, you know, messy, centrifugal, interdependent,

00:51:51.860 –> 00:51:58.140
reciprocal, dynamic equilibrium cosmos requires material

00:51:58.140 –> 00:52:01.100
and the force to be there.

00:52:01.100 –> 00:52:06.060
And if we don’t tend to it consciously, we’re going to tend

00:52:06.060 –> 00:52:09.100
to it unconsciously by our death.

00:52:09.100 –> 00:52:11.180
We will be food for the moon

00:52:11.180 –> 00:52:15.260
because the whole thing is loved far more than we love it.

00:52:15.260 –> 00:52:19.820
We may be trying to save our butts by climbing upwards,

00:52:19.820 –> 00:52:22.780
but the divine homeostasis is always going

00:52:22.780 –> 00:52:28.140
to require the participation of these lower forms,

00:52:28.140 –> 00:52:31.660
more coarse forms because without it the whole thing cavitates

00:52:31.660 –> 00:52:36.980
and wallows and we’re back in, you know, fire or ice,

00:52:36.000 –> 00:52:41.000
as Robert Frost called it.

00:52:41.780 –> 00:52:45.260
The dead end of entropy, the dead end of implosion.

00:52:45.260 –> 00:52:52.260
Either way, there is a fragile and dynamic type tolerance

00:52:52.260 –> 00:53:00.180
that allows this whole thing to be the home of his Endlessness.

00:53:00.180 –> 00:53:03.020
The whole thing.

00:53:03.020 –> 00:53:04.300
And that’s implicit.

00:53:04.300 –> 00:53:05.860
Yes, Mary Ann?

00:53:05.860 –> 00:53:10.300

As you’re speaking about this, Cynthia, I’m thinking of our death

00:53:10.300 –> 00:53:13.220
and the death of our loved ones and how we’re connected.

00:53:13.220 –> 00:53:14.580
Can you–

00:53:14.580 –> 00:53:16.300

I’ll get there in just a– I’ll get there.

00:53:16.300 –> 00:53:17.940
I’ll go in there, OK?

00:53:17.940 –> 00:53:19.580
Hold that question.

00:53:19.580 –> 00:53:26.700

I just want– Then am I hearing that our conscious participation

00:53:26.700 –> 00:53:36.660
in this process is enhancing the quality of this dynamic?

00:53:36.660 –> 00:53:37.980
Is that– ?

00:53:37.980 –> 00:53:39.260

This is what you’re hearing.

00:53:39.260 –> 00:53:40.980
This is what you’re definitely hearing.

00:53:40.980 –> 00:53:45.100
And so, there’s two parts to everything.

00:53:45.100 –> 00:53:49.660
One is having a correct map and then one is being able

00:53:49.660 –> 00:53:52.580
to do what the map tells you.

00:53:52.580 –> 00:53:54.380
OK.

00:53:54.380 –> 00:53:56.180

Inaudible

00:53:56.180 –> 00:53:59.740

And I would say that each of these things are important and need

00:53:59.740 –> 00:54:05.020
to be considered in turn because one of the things that Gurdjieff understood

00:54:05.020 –> 00:54:08.580
so profoundly is that the map that had been preserved

00:54:08.580 –> 00:54:15.460
in the so-called wisdom traditions of the world was only a partial map

00:54:15.460 –> 00:54:19.500
and that it was being infected by a kind of dualism

00:54:19.500 –> 00:54:23.540
that would inevitably make us look in the wrong places.

00:54:23.540 –> 00:54:28.860
The other aspect of this just to consider it is that, you know,

00:54:28.860 –> 00:54:32.700
many people have noticed and it’s been one of my own kind of issues

00:54:32.700 –> 00:54:39.020
that temperamentally, the ethos, the heart of the Christian understanding

00:54:39.020 –> 00:54:43.460
of where we’re going intuitively is in a cognitive tension

00:54:43.460 –> 00:54:47.180
with the classic kind of platonic and neoplatonic maps.

00:54:47.180 –> 00:54:49.900
And that’s been a San Andreas fault

00:54:49.900 –> 00:54:52.580
for the entire of Christian experience.

00:54:52.580 –> 00:54:56.300
But people like Teilhard de Chardin, people like Jesus,

00:54:56.300 –> 00:55:00.260
people like Bruno Barnhart, people like Beatrice Bruteau

00:55:00.260 –> 00:55:06.100
in her incredible book, God’s Ecstasy, are catching that again

00:55:06.100 –> 00:55:12.740
and are understanding that the centrifugal, if I use that one correctly,

00:55:12.740 –> 00:55:19.500
the throwing off, the throwing off force is part of the whole

00:55:19.500 –> 00:55:24.540
and is absolutely equally spiritual and equally indispensable

00:55:24.540 –> 00:55:29.980
to the planet and part of the way that this whole ray is going to go is

00:55:29.980 –> 00:55:33.220
in the very messiness of new creation.

00:55:33.220 –> 00:55:37.060
You know, Teilhard is onto a lot of that.

00:55:37.060 –> 00:55:40.980
So yes, that’s the map.

00:55:40.980 –> 00:55:42.300
That’s the map.

00:55:42.300 –> 00:55:46.820
And the Trinitarian map is essentially a trogoautoegocratic map

00:55:46.820 –> 00:55:48.860
when you can understand it that way.

00:55:48.860 –> 00:55:51.980
It meshes with the food cycle.

00:55:51.980 –> 00:55:56.620
And that now moves us to the second part.

00:55:56.620 –> 00:55:58.780
Well, with that map.

00:55:58.780 –> 00:56:04.020
And Gurdjieff took that map that I believe is implicit in the teachings

00:56:04.020 –> 00:56:10.540
of Jesus and made it explicit and at least proto-scientific.

00:56:10.540 –> 00:56:14.940
And what he said to return to Anne’s question

00:56:14.940 –> 00:56:24.820
and to an extent Mary Anne’s then, we can then participate in this thing.

00:56:24.820 –> 00:56:31.020
You know, our choice is basically eat or be eaten.

00:56:31.020 –> 00:56:32.500
Eat or be eaten.

00:56:32.500 –> 00:56:38.820
And here is how Moore says it.

00:56:38.820 –> 00:56:41.740
He says on page 48, The gift

00:56:41.740 –> 00:56:45.780
of man’s extraordinary potentiality had been restored.

00:56:45.780 –> 00:56:50.020
He was a simulcratude of the whole.

00:56:50.020 –> 00:56:53.660
A being who through conscious labor

00:56:53.660 –> 00:56:58.300
and intentional suffering might slowly perfect himself to the level

00:56:58.300 –> 00:57:04.460
of objective reason and attain cosmic immortality.

00:57:04.460 –> 00:57:06.180
Let’s see, where did I say this?

00:57:06.180 –> 00:57:08.820
He’s talking about the end.

00:57:08.820 –> 00:57:12.340
I’m not reading the right quote, but I’ve got another.

00:57:12.340 –> 00:57:15.820
Here’s how he talks about it somewhere, which I didn’t copy down.

00:57:15.820 –> 00:57:21.060
We can become food for the moon at our death or by conscious labor

00:57:21.060 –> 00:57:24.620
and intentional suffering might perfect ourselves to the level

00:57:24.620 –> 00:57:33.380
of objective reason and attain immortality,

00:57:33.380 –> 00:57:35.980
reintegrating with the source.

00:57:35.980 –> 00:57:37.900
Now, how do we do this?

00:57:37.900 –> 00:57:43.660
Through the process of releasing, you know, dying before you die,

00:57:43.660 –> 00:57:54.940
we crystallize in us something which Gurdjieff calls the Kesdjan body.

00:57:54.940 –> 00:57:56.500

What body?

00:57:56.500 –> 00:58:03.820

Kesgen, K-E-S-D-J-A-N, or the second body, if you like that.

00:58:03.820 –> 00:58:07.940
The resurrection body, if you want to use classic Christian terms,

00:58:07.940 –> 00:58:18.020
that essentially allows us to survive the passage through physical death

00:58:18.020 –> 00:58:21.780
with our personhood still intact.

00:58:21.780 –> 00:58:26.860
And essentially, the reason we do this is

00:58:26.860 –> 00:58:30.880
because we’ve actually done this before we physically die.

00:58:30.880 –> 00:58:39.140
And Rafe used to teach me about this, that he says, You have to find

00:58:39.140 –> 00:58:43.660
that in you that already lives beyond death

00:58:43.660 –> 00:58:47.340
and begin to live out of it now.

00:58:47.340 –> 00:58:53.540
In other words, to transpose the seat of your identity

00:58:53.540 –> 00:59:03.280
out of the egoic separated self into this larger, you can call it,

00:59:03.280 –> 00:59:07.760
the Kesdjan body, the resurrection body, the second body,

00:59:07.760 –> 00:59:13.680
which already lives beyond death.

00:59:13.680 –> 00:59:18.320
Gurdjieff used to talk about it as a sense crystallizing second body,

00:59:18.320 –> 00:59:23.540
and you have to be clear about what this means,

00:59:23.540 –> 00:59:26.020
because in some sense you’re not making something

00:59:26.020 –> 00:59:29.300
that didn’t exist already.

00:59:29.300 –> 00:59:35.020
But what you are doing that didn’t exist already is you’re solidifying your

00:59:35.020 –> 00:59:38.620
conscious connection to this.

00:59:38.620 –> 00:59:44.380
And, okay, so that we don’t get right back into delayed gratification

00:59:44.380 –> 00:59:45.680
and it’s all about me.

00:59:45.680 –> 00:59:46.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me get with this.

00:59:46.980 –> 00:59:48.280
It’s a new project.

00:59:48.280 –> 00:59:51.460
I’m going to build my Kesdjan body so that after I die I won’t be food

00:59:51.460 –> 00:59:54.460
for the moon, I’ll get to live on, you know.

00:59:54.460 –> 00:59:59.780
This is just another variation of saving your own skin.

00:59:59.780 –> 01:00:06.940
Please understand, before you even aspire to go there,

01:00:06.940 –> 01:00:11.660
that this continues to be in service of the cosmos,

01:00:11.660 –> 01:00:15.100
not in service of yourself.

01:00:15.100 –> 01:00:22.100
And if we have to give an exhibit A, that it’s not all blissfully,

01:00:22.100 –> 01:00:28.100
delightfully, let’s take our dear friend Helen Daly,

01:00:28.100 –> 01:00:38.060
who died two days ago, and who understood that this was a

01:00:38.060 –> 01:00:43.700
conscious death, who understood that there was something

01:00:43.700 –> 01:00:49.020
in the quality of her aspiration that was somehow bound up

01:00:49.020 –> 01:00:54.900
in the voraciousness of this cancer, and said, Okay, I go there.

01:00:54.900 –> 01:00:56.420
I go there.

01:00:56.420 –> 01:01:01.780
And allowed herself to be transposed to a different realm.

01:01:01.780 –> 01:01:05.380
So if you want to look at it from the point of view of human earth,

01:01:05.380 –> 01:01:09.580
you’re saying, Well, you know, what the hell good is spiritual practice,

01:01:09.580 –> 01:01:10.500
you know?

01:01:10.500 –> 01:01:13.460
Only what is she, 60, 62 years old?

01:01:13.460 –> 01:01:14.940
And she died?

01:01:14.940 –> 01:01:19.900
You know, isn’t spiritual practice supposed to maintain your longevity?

01:01:19.900 –> 01:01:22.860
Isn’t it supposed to be, isn’t the reward of spiritual practice

01:01:22.860 –> 01:01:25.220
that you could be sitting there at 90 years old,

01:01:25.220 –> 01:01:29.700
still being able to do your yoga bends, at least your yin yoga bends,

01:01:29.700 –> 01:01:32.380
smiling sweetly with your consciousness intact,

01:01:32.380 –> 01:01:35.420
and everybody looks at your skin and says you look like a 35-year-old?

01:01:35.420 –> 01:01:42.900
LAUGHTER

01:01:42.900 –> 01:01:48.900
No, I would say that is an infestation of spiritual materialism.

01:01:48.900 –> 01:02:00.460
And that the willingness to say yes to being a cosmic servant, which

01:02:00.460 –> 01:02:04.260
has really everything to do with the passage from man number four

01:02:04.260 –> 01:02:10.260
to man number five, at that point, you

01:02:10.260 –> 01:02:15.940
let go of your attachment to maintaining

01:02:15.940 –> 01:02:18.460
your own physical skin.

01:02:18.460 –> 01:02:23.660
And part of the surrender is to say, where you would have me,

01:02:23.660 –> 01:02:27.980
God, is where I go.

01:02:27.980 –> 01:02:29.260
Yes, Paula?

01:02:29.260 –> 01:02:31.660
I just want to– it sounds really arduous.

01:02:34.780 –> 01:02:41.820
But I have a feeling that it is what we yearn for,

01:02:41.820 –> 01:02:44.020
even though it’s arduous.

01:02:44.020 –> 01:02:49.660
And so all the language of dying free, die and sacrifice

01:02:49.660 –> 01:02:53.060
and intentional suffering and stuff, but I

01:02:53.060 –> 01:02:57.540
feel like there’s this through line of bliss,

01:02:57.540 –> 01:03:03.660
maybe not superficial bliss, but that prayer from Bennett this morning

01:03:03.660 –> 01:03:06.420
kind of said it all for me.

01:03:06.420 –> 01:03:12.140
That it is about going to your real– he used destiny.

01:03:12.140 –> 01:03:14.060
He did use destiny.

01:03:14.060 –> 01:03:18.900
But that is all infused with joy.

01:03:18.900 –> 01:03:21.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:21.260 –> 01:03:23.980
And you can immediately raise the question,

01:03:23.980 –> 01:03:26.820
well, why do some people not aspire to it and others do?

01:03:26.820 –> 01:03:29.660
Why did that connect with you so powerfully?

01:03:29.660 –> 01:03:33.100
And we’re bookended by a couple of concepts

01:03:33.100 –> 01:03:34.460
that are really useful to us.

01:03:34.460 –> 01:03:35.540
One is astrology.

01:03:35.540 –> 01:03:37.620
One is reincarnation.

01:03:37.620 –> 01:03:42.140
And while I don’t take either one of them with full seriousness,

01:03:42.140 –> 01:03:46.700
they’re really useful bookends because the important thing to say

01:03:46.700 –> 01:03:50.980
is that you cannot respond to a passage like that

01:03:50.980 –> 01:03:57.620
until you have already gained enough cosmic experience to seek

01:03:57.620 –> 01:04:01.620
and to yearn for that next step.

01:04:01.620 –> 01:04:03.060
It just comes.

01:04:03.060 –> 01:04:07.180
There’s a wonderful, wonderful story that Irina Tweedie

01:04:07.180 –> 01:04:11.540
tells in Daughters of Fire where she came in.

01:04:11.540 –> 01:04:14.580
She was a theosophist to the day.

01:04:14.580 –> 01:04:16.620
And the two last things that she gave up

01:04:16.620 –> 01:04:21.340
before she was completely immolated and transfigured

01:04:21.340 –> 01:04:23.780
were her stockings and her belief in reincarnation.

01:04:23.780 –> 01:04:26.660
LAUGHTER

01:04:26.660 –> 01:04:31.420
And so at one point, she was asking her teacher,

01:04:31.420 –> 01:04:37.420
well, why do you say you can do it for people in one lifetime

01:04:37.420 –> 01:04:41.020
when all the reincarnation people say that it takes lifetimes

01:04:41.020 –> 01:04:43.060
and lifetimes and lifetimes to do this?

01:04:43.060 –> 01:04:44.180
He says, it’s easy.

01:04:44.180 –> 01:04:46.780
By the time I get you, you’re already on your last lifetime.

01:04:46.780 –> 01:04:49.220
LAUGHTER

01:04:49.220 –> 01:04:58.260
Yes, Ed?

01:04:58.260 –> 01:05:02.620
I keep finding myself connecting this

01:05:02.620 –> 01:05:09.660
with being in the body of Christ, Christ being in my body,

01:05:09.660 –> 01:05:15.700
and the seamlessness at death into the body of Christ.

01:05:15.700 –> 01:05:17.220
Yes, you’ve got that.

01:05:17.220 –> 01:05:20.380
And I think it was wonderful that Darlene read that.

01:05:20.380 –> 01:05:22.740
Simeon, the New Theologian’s Christ Body.

01:05:22.740 –> 01:05:23.980
You’ve got it.

01:05:23.980 –> 01:05:26.980
You’ve got the trogoautoegocrat

01:05:26.980 –> 01:05:29.100
that’s right there in the middle of the Eucharist.

01:05:29.100 –> 01:05:29.600
Yes.

01:05:29.600 –> 01:05:36.780
Eating myself, I am maintained that Christ’s body goes

01:05:36.780 –> 01:05:39.140
into your body and becomes part of your body

01:05:39.140 –> 01:05:41.660
so that you become part of Christ’s body.

01:05:41.660 –> 01:05:48.140
This inter-realmic exchange is happening all the time.

01:05:48.140 –> 01:05:55.860
And as that happens, it propels the higher collectivity.

01:05:55.860 –> 01:06:00.300
Because I really do believe that the evolutionary leap,

01:06:00.300 –> 01:06:03.020
the next cusp thing that we’re on,

01:06:03.020 –> 01:06:08.780
is that at least some of collective humanity

01:06:08.780 –> 01:06:15.580
takes up their position at a new Do in the ray of creation, where

01:06:15.580 –> 01:06:22.020
we are able to really not only intellectually rationalize

01:06:22.020 –> 01:06:27.700
and compute that, oh, yes, we’re all part of Christ’s body,

01:06:27.700 –> 01:06:32.340
but we’re actually able to sense as a cell in a larger body.

01:06:32.340 –> 01:06:35.340
So we’re thinking not from the part to the whole,

01:06:35.340 –> 01:06:37.060
but from the whole to the part.

01:06:37.060 –> 01:06:39.420
That’s kind of Ken Wilber’s perception

01:06:39.420 –> 01:06:42.580
of what the dawning of integral consciousness is all about.

01:06:42.580 –> 01:06:47.580
And it makes possible the move to the next evolutionary level

01:06:47.580 –> 01:06:52.660
of collectivity, which has been anticipated for a long time

01:06:52.660 –> 01:06:54.700
in our mythology.

01:06:54.000 –> 01:07:01.000
Every tradition has the vision of the Adam-Kadmon in the Kabbalah,

01:07:01.020 –> 01:07:05.620
the body of Christ, the Insan-i Kamil in the Sufi

01:07:05.620 –> 01:07:08.100
traditions, that we are all one.

01:07:08.100 –> 01:07:11.980
There is only one human.

01:07:11.980 –> 01:07:14.540
And we are all part of that.

01:07:14.540 –> 01:07:18.660
That human becomes human at the next level of collectivity

01:07:18.660 –> 01:07:20.620
that we can sustain.

01:07:20.620 –> 01:07:23.220
So these things are all bubbling up now

01:07:23.220 –> 01:07:27.380
as the mix as the pot starts to stew.

01:07:27.380 –> 01:07:31.620
Moving back for just a minute to Sister Helen,

01:07:31.620 –> 01:07:39.700
at the point that you are willing to move from man number four

01:07:39.700 –> 01:07:45.180
to man number five, to cast your eggs

01:07:45.180 –> 01:07:53.380
in the basket of the second body,

01:07:53.380 –> 01:07:58.340
that what side of the divide of conscious servanthood

01:07:58.340 –> 01:08:01.860
you wind up on is God’s business, not yours?

01:08:01.860 –> 01:08:08.020
That my own teacher, Rafe, was deeply

01:08:08.020 –> 01:08:11.060
attracted to this whole notion that Gurdjieff brings in

01:08:11.060 –> 01:08:15.020
so strongly of the conscious circle of humanity.

01:08:15.020 –> 01:08:19.860
This body of beings, some in human flesh as receivers,

01:08:19.860 –> 01:08:23.300
some in divine flesh more typically as transmitters.

01:08:23.300 –> 01:08:26.700
But even there, it’s a reciprocal feeding.

01:08:26.700 –> 01:08:30.540
We join arms across the theoretical divide

01:08:30.540 –> 01:08:34.820
of space-time death-life to constantly realize

01:08:34.820 –> 01:08:38.780
its permeability, its interpermeability

01:08:38.780 –> 01:08:40.740
from both sides.

01:08:40.740 –> 01:08:43.100
It’s a cosmic work.

01:08:43.100 –> 01:08:45.540
And it’s part of the dotted lines

01:08:45.540 –> 01:08:51.940
you sign on as you move beyond balanced man

01:08:51.940 –> 01:08:56.020
to the deeper surrender that starts that.

01:08:56.020 –> 01:08:58.500
The last three, you can be on either side

01:08:58.500 –> 01:09:02.820
of the cosmic divide, five, six, and seven.

01:09:02.820 –> 01:09:10.300
And if you go over as five in relationship to six

01:09:10.300 –> 01:09:12.340
through your cosmic servanthood and

01:09:12.340 –> 01:09:15.180
through the reciprocal feeding from this world,

01:09:15.180 –> 01:09:20.060
you will be perfected up to, as Gurdjieff talks about,

01:09:20.060 –> 01:09:26.940
in holy planet purgatory, the level of objective reason.

01:09:26.940 –> 01:09:30.460
And I experienced this so profoundly in my own work

01:09:30.460 –> 01:09:37.300
with Rafe that he was able to– he was holding

01:09:37.300 –> 01:09:38.300
and he was aspiring.

01:09:38.300 –> 01:09:39.500
He wanted to go all the way.

01:09:39.500 –> 01:09:41.060
He’d be happy to be man number seven,

01:09:41.060 –> 01:09:43.140
but he definitely wanted to go farther,

01:09:43.140 –> 01:09:45.740
to hew the line deeper.

01:09:45.740 –> 01:09:50.940
It was worked out that he knew that taking me on

01:09:50.940 –> 01:09:53.980
would be his last human task.

01:09:53.980 –> 01:09:59.140
And he knew in some way that it would cost him his life.

01:09:59.140 –> 01:10:04.940
And that he knew that what was not done in this life

01:10:04.940 –> 01:10:10.180
would be continued, kesdjan body to kesdjan body,

01:10:10.180 –> 01:10:11.820
through the duration of my life.

01:10:11.820 –> 01:10:15.340
I have some specific accountability there.

01:10:15.340 –> 01:10:16.820
But it moves on.

01:10:16.820 –> 01:10:18.180
It moves on.

01:10:18.180 –> 01:10:25.140
And as Gurdjieff sees it in the holy planet purgatory,

01:10:25.140 –> 01:10:30.940
there comes a point where we do perfect our being body up

01:10:30.940 –> 01:10:36.620
to the highest level of objective reason.

01:10:36.620 –> 01:10:44.380
And at that point, we’re done in deep ways, most of us,

01:10:44.380 –> 01:10:48.980
with this particular interval on the Ray of Creation.

01:10:48.980 –> 01:10:57.420
Wherever we go, it’s beyond the whole kind of Mi-Fa place.

01:10:57.420 –> 01:11:00.220
That in these intermediary bands, five and six

01:11:00.220 –> 01:11:04.380
in particular, we can be on either side of the divide.

01:11:04.380 –> 01:11:11.740
And that the reason we girdle this divide

01:11:11.740 –> 01:11:16.900
is so that there can be a deep and profound and loving,

01:11:16.900 –> 01:11:21.780
tender exchange of substances.

01:11:21.780 –> 01:11:24.380
So that we humans who are aspiring

01:11:24.380 –> 01:11:26.540
are not left high and dry.

01:11:26.540 –> 01:11:28.660
It isn’t all just conscious labor

01:11:28.660 –> 01:11:30.740
and intentional suffering.

01:11:30.740 –> 01:11:33.980
Through this, we are met by grace,

01:11:33.980 –> 01:11:35.540
which is God becoming human.

01:11:40.940 –> 01:11:43.420
And the work is done.

01:11:43.420 –> 01:11:44.980
The work is done.

01:11:44.980 –> 01:11:50.340
But first of all, read the fine print carefully.

01:11:50.340 –> 01:11:52.020
Don’t think that you’re just aspiring

01:11:52.020 –> 01:11:54.180
so that you’re going to hunky dory get

01:11:54.180 –> 01:11:58.060
to sit on the throne of Holy Sun Absolute.

01:11:58.060 –> 01:12:01.980
Spiritual practice at this level tends to either lengthen lives

01:12:01.980 –> 01:12:02.780
or shorten them.

01:12:02.780 –> 01:12:09.660
And gulp hard before you go about how identified you

01:12:09.660 –> 01:12:12.420
are with prolonging your physical being.

01:12:12.420 –> 01:12:14.820
But nothing will be wasted.

01:12:14.820 –> 01:12:16.420
Yes, Rose?

01:12:16.420 –> 01:12:20.100
I mean, I don’t think we decide that, though.

01:12:20.100 –> 01:12:20.780
No, you don’t.

01:12:20.780 –> 01:12:22.260
All you do is say yes.

01:12:22.260 –> 01:12:23.140
Exactly.

01:12:23.140 –> 01:12:23.640
Exactly.

01:12:23.640 –> 01:12:26.740
It’s not all that we’ve been doing leading up to that.

01:12:26.740 –> 01:12:28.100
Yeah.

01:12:28.100 –> 01:12:32.980
I mean, even in Centering Prayer, it teaches us consenting to God.

01:12:32.980 –> 01:12:34.380
Yeah, yeah.

01:12:34.380 –> 01:12:37.740
I mean, if you want to save your own skin, bail out.

01:12:37.740 –> 01:12:39.340
And go be food for the moon.

01:12:39.340 –> 01:12:40.860
Exactly.

01:12:40.860 –> 01:12:44.340
And have a good time in this life.

01:12:44.340 –> 01:12:50.580
But if you want to consciously serve, my teacher, Rafe, said–

01:12:50.580 –> 01:12:53.580
or not Rafe, but Ravi said this, Ravi Ravindra–

01:12:53.580 –> 01:12:57.140
we have only one choice in this life.

01:12:57.140 –> 01:13:01.020
We can be slaves or we can be conscious servants.

01:13:01.020 –> 01:13:06.420
Now, it’s very interesting to me that just

01:13:06.420 –> 01:13:09.900
about the time of Jesus, just before Jesus,

01:13:09.900 –> 01:13:14.020
this whole notion of bodhisattva was beginning

01:13:14.020 –> 01:13:16.820
to percolate into consciousness.

01:13:16.820 –> 01:13:21.540
And we find it profoundly intimated

01:13:21.540 –> 01:13:23.860
in those mysterious passages that we

01:13:23.860 –> 01:13:27.900
read in Second Isaiah, the suffering

01:13:27.900 –> 01:13:31.180
servant, the son of man.

01:13:31.180 –> 01:13:34.140
And very interestingly, Jesus would constantly

01:13:34.140 –> 01:13:39.300
call himself the Son of Man, the Son of Man.

01:13:39.300 –> 01:13:40.620
What does this mean?

01:13:40.620 –> 01:13:41.420
Nobody knows.

01:13:41.420 –> 01:13:43.660
And of course, all the intellectuals,

01:13:43.660 –> 01:13:47.900
the scribes and Pharisees have nattered that thing to death

01:13:47.900 –> 01:13:52.300
when it’s absolutely clear as a bell.

01:13:52.300 –> 01:13:55.940
He is anticipating– the writer of Second Isaiah

01:13:55.940 –> 01:14:00.020
is seeing bodhisattva, the one who,

01:14:00.020 –> 01:14:02.900
although he has perfected his being up

01:14:02.900 –> 01:14:07.220
to a level of objective reason such that he could be off

01:14:07.220 –> 01:14:16.300
this planet, chooses to stay so that sentient being can be well,

01:14:16.300 –> 01:14:22.220
so that this essential food for the moon

01:14:22.220 –> 01:14:28.140
can be released joyously and freely by more and more people

01:14:28.140 –> 01:14:31.700
so that the whole thing can move upward joyously and not just

01:14:31.700 –> 01:14:34.620
downward draggingly, who can help,

01:14:34.620 –> 01:14:37.940
who can take up the pain and the brutality

01:14:37.940 –> 01:14:40.420
and the brokenness and the heartbreak, which

01:14:40.420 –> 01:14:44.300
is all part and parcel of this crucial sphere.

01:14:44.300 –> 01:14:46.060
That’s the bodhisattva.

01:14:46.060 –> 01:14:47.180
Jesus saw that.

01:14:47.180 –> 01:14:51.660
Jesus saw himself as that, as a Son of Man.

01:14:51.660 –> 01:14:58.620
And that whole idea of cosmic servanthood and along

01:14:58.620 –> 01:15:02.780
with that, the idea that very quickly got shanghaied

01:15:02.780 –> 01:15:05.660
in Christianity and became the doctrine that we all

01:15:05.660 –> 01:15:10.780
love to hate, atonement.

01:15:10.780 –> 01:15:15.300
But if you take atonement out of the involuntary, which

01:15:15.300 –> 01:15:17.540
is where they made their great mistake,

01:15:17.540 –> 01:15:22.020
we’re going to slaughter somebody so that some karmic price can

01:15:22.020 –> 01:15:29.060
be paid, which is a grotesque distortion of what this means.

01:15:29.060 –> 01:15:37.940
And place it instead on the pedestal of vicarious voluntary love

01:15:37.940 –> 01:15:45.100
so that one person who has basically attained to this level

01:15:45.100 –> 01:15:52.940
can, Kesdjan body to Kesdjan body, bear the burden of another.

01:15:52.940 –> 01:15:58.260
So the other receives that which they can’t do by themselves

01:15:58.260 –> 01:16:05.380
and can continue their journey of evolution,

01:16:05.380 –> 01:16:09.180
not personal evolution, but cosmic evolution,

01:16:09.180 –> 01:16:12.500
so that they can be a part more consciously of the bearing

01:16:12.500 –> 01:16:20.100
upward, of the energies of the foods that are generated here

01:16:20.100 –> 01:16:24.220
through our conscious labor and voluntary suffering.

01:16:24.220 –> 01:16:27.620
What are the foods that we humans can really generate?

01:16:27.620 –> 01:16:28.380
It’s obvious.

01:16:28.380 –> 01:16:30.220
They’ve been named right from the start

01:16:30.220 –> 01:16:34.260
in the wonderful teaching on the fruits of the spirit.

01:16:34.260 –> 01:16:41.060
Gentleness, kindness, peacefulness, joy.

01:16:41.060 –> 01:16:43.580
These are food.

01:16:43.580 –> 01:16:49.460
These are food for the higher, more subtle dimensions,

01:16:49.460 –> 01:16:54.500
these other places in the cosmic realms that need this kind of food

01:16:54.500 –> 01:16:58.460
as much as some of us need protein.

01:16:58.460 –> 01:17:02.700
And as we participate in generating them, once again,

01:17:02.000 –> 01:17:08.000
it’s part of this whole inevitable, deeply impersonal,

01:17:08.340 –> 01:17:12.340
but not uncaring nature.

01:17:12.340 –> 01:17:14.220
And you can see that one of the reasons

01:17:14.220 –> 01:17:20.940
that this whole thing is working so disastrously nowadays

01:17:20.940 –> 01:17:24.300
is that human beings as a whole are no longer generating

01:17:24.300 –> 01:17:28.780
those substances that are cosmically necessary.

01:17:28.780 –> 01:17:34.380
Instead of, in any whole scale way, generating peace, gentleness,

01:17:34.380 –> 01:17:40.860
forbearance, we’re belching into the cosmos, selfishness, greed,

01:17:40.860 –> 01:17:49.060
orange alert, which are toxins every bit as much as carbon monoxide

01:17:49.060 –> 01:17:51.900
and those other things.

01:17:51.900 –> 01:17:56.380
But they’re toxins at the next level added.

01:17:56.380 –> 01:17:57.580
OK?

01:17:57.580 –> 01:17:59.260
Yes, Lisa was going to say something?

01:17:59.260 –> 01:18:00.420
Yes.

01:18:00.420 –> 01:18:07.500
So your explanation of the beatitudes in Wisdom Jesus

01:18:07.500 –> 01:18:16.140
as being the result of state of consciousness that can happen,

01:18:16.140 –> 01:18:20.300
in what I’ve been seeing as Torah instead of the Torah,

01:18:20.300 –> 01:18:26.420
is that what you’re saying, is that was his offering, was his path,

01:18:26.420 –> 01:18:30.420
in those descriptions

01:18:30.420 –> 01:18:35.420
match what would be the revelation of the law?

01:18:35.420 –> 01:18:36.420
Yeah.

01:18:36.420 –> 01:18:40.420
If you get the heart of what Jesus is saying,

01:18:40.420 –> 01:18:46.420
embedded in his teaching very simply in the practice which we know as kenosis,

01:18:46.420 –> 01:18:53.420
is a way of doing about 95% of the journey of conscious labor

01:18:53.420 –> 01:18:57.420
and intentional suffering.

01:18:57.420 –> 01:19:03.420
And if you don’t get the other 5%, which it’ll take up the slack for you.

01:19:03.420 –> 01:19:09.420
So he was bringing a practice which we’ve missed,

01:19:09.420 –> 01:19:13.420
a practice that is completely compatible with what Gurdjieff is spelling out

01:19:13.420 –> 01:19:19.420
in such literal terms here, that if you don’t do this conscious labor

01:19:19.420 –> 01:19:24.420
or intentional suffering bit, if you decline to do it,

01:19:24.420 –> 01:19:31.420
if you say, I’d rather relax and enjoy the ride,

01:19:31.420 –> 01:19:38.420
you have elected to become part of the unconscious layer

01:19:38.420 –> 01:19:43.420
of sentient life on earth.

01:19:43.420 –> 01:19:48.420
And without doing any saber-rattling about–

01:19:48.420 –> 01:19:51.420
I think it’s fundamental immorality to then say,

01:19:51.420 –> 01:19:54.420
Well, that means you get to be food for the moon.

01:19:54.420 –> 01:19:58.420
Whenever we, on this side of death, try to make categorical statements

01:19:58.420 –> 01:20:03.420
about what happens afterwards, all we do is tyrannize other people

01:20:03.420 –> 01:20:06.420
and show our own ignorance.

01:20:06.420 –> 01:20:12.420
We don’t know what souls are doing inside us.

01:20:12.420 –> 01:20:16.420
So it’s really important in spiritual practice not to go to that,

01:20:16.420 –> 01:20:22.420
Ah, otherwise, dot, dot, dot, sinners in the hand of an angry god.

01:20:22.420 –> 01:20:29.420
But it is possible to frame this thing in a positive sight

01:20:29.420 –> 01:20:35.420
and say that within your capacity, within the gift that was given to you

01:20:35.420 –> 01:20:41.420
by virtue of your incarnation as a human being,

01:20:41.420 –> 01:20:51.420
is the capacity to make the choice to become a conscious servant,

01:20:51.420 –> 01:20:58.420
to make the choice to live your life consciously participating

01:20:58.420 –> 01:21:04.420
in this transformation of energy that happens when selfishness and fear

01:21:04.420 –> 01:21:11.420
and animal instincts are consciously released and transubstantiated

01:21:11.420 –> 01:21:17.420
to become food for a higher level of being,

01:21:17.420 –> 01:21:22.420
and to become beacons and models and cosmic servants

01:21:22.420 –> 01:21:25.420
for the struggling rest of us who are still doing,

01:21:25.420 –> 01:21:31.420
even if we’re unconscious, something that is cosmically important and vital.

01:21:31.420 –> 01:21:35.420
Every single one of us, whether we’re enlightened or not.

01:21:35.420 –> 01:21:41.420
So if you make that choice, it will cost you some things

01:21:41.420 –> 01:21:46.420
in terms of your maximization of the pain-pleasure principle

01:21:46.420 –> 01:21:48.420
with regard to this life.

01:21:48.420 –> 01:21:56.420
It opens up luminous realms and the capacity to move between realms

01:21:56.420 –> 01:22:01.420
consciously and voluntarily, again as you’re needed,

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not because you want to try to be a cosmic stunt person.

01:22:06.420 –> 01:22:08.420
Is this all clear?